Went to a meeting of business types a few days back. I am always dismayed by the callous attitudes some display, but this one was amazing. This group is mostly in favor of dictators as friends. They are puzzled that our oil supplier pals in the middle east don’t get out there and shoot their opponents. “Mow the bastards down” is a popular phrase. When I said Arabic people are tired of being cheated and abused by mafia style governments my pals jump to a line of “oh well I guess you want higher gas prices” and a sweep it under the rug assessment of “hey those people have it pretty good, don’t let the news fool you”. Well I ask them what does your religious or moral self say about this, shall we prop up abusive and immoral dictators so we can set at Starbucks drive up with cheap gas and to hell with those brown people? One of the many I spoke to decided we should not. He too is now on the list of suspects.
Selectivity is a strange mechanism. We hate Muslims, and dictators, but we love oil, and Muslim dictators with oil. We don’t want revolution in oil producing states because it will disturb the oil market, but we want revolution in Iran which will disturb the oil market. First Russia didn’t want Libya bombed, then agreed in the UN Security Council, then flip-flopped again. On Egypt the GOP didn’t want regime change, but as soon as Libya hit the fan they wanted to bomb and promote regime change, until Obama bombed it, and they promptly joined hands with the Russians against people fighting the brutal dictator behind the PanAm 747 bombing. As usual we see the French on the opposite side of the GOP, the French will intervene to save a city from being shelled while the GOP will consider removing French Fries from the Senate and House cafeteria, again.
Well, I'd be the first one to say that there isn't much intelligence in the GOP. Of any kind as far as I can see.
ReplyDeleteSherry,
ReplyDeleteI guarantee your not alone with this idea.
I got to have lunch today with a small group including Professor Jeremi Suri of the UW History department (one of my two favorites). Naturally I seized the opportunity to ask him what he thought about the Libya situation.
ReplyDeleteHe had much to say, all of it presented very clearly (he does this for a living) but what I mostly took away is:
This is the new reality. Slavery is gone. Colonialism is gone. This is next. We've had it both ways for a long time but that's over now. We need to get out in front on this.
As to specific policy regarding right now, Libya, he likes the way Obama is proceeding. Build consensus. Let the French strike first (not us, anyway). Some things only we can do. Let's be prepared to do them. Obviously we have to decide how far we're willing to go. It's OK to proceed with a bit of caution and be ready to reformulate the plan as we go. Plans set in stone can turn into a stone around ones neck. Think Von Schlieffen Plan. Or the Bush Doctrine.
Finally, be ready to help in the region but not to move in and take over.
NAC,
ReplyDeleteLove it, thanks for this comment. I love it when we (thanks to you this time) can hear a little from someone who truly knows the area, the conditions, the past and the possibilities. I have scanned a few foreign news sites and I see that most nations have a different opinion of this at the moment than the US Reichwing. Well this can change in a hurry, but at the moment Obama has taken the right course by most of the worlds leaders, sure Russia and China do not like any intervention against oppressors, as this chips at their own foundations. Thanks again. Oh, from what country or background is the professor?
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ReplyDeletefringe -
ReplyDeleteWhere was NATO while 400,000 people were being slaughtered, raped and burned out of their villiages in Darfur? Where was Nato when 800,000 people were being massacred in Rwanda? What role do you think oil played in how differently these events were handled or in some case, not handled?
I've seen some of the same attitudes when I meet with some business people in national meetings. I assume it's due to ignorance, lack of exposure to other cultures, and in some cases intelligence. Wonder what they'd say if you suggested the US government shoot the bastard businessmen who are screwing over the working man. Maybe that would get them thinking a little.
ReplyDeleteIllumination Guy had a good point when he suggested oil was why we're in Libya. I think it's true. We don't bomb Saudi or Bahrain when they kill citizens, and we don't intervene in Africa.
Nice to read the professor quote that NAC put up. I hope we are in front of this thing, supporting people why also reducing our support for dictators. I haven't seen huge changes in this, so I don't know if we will fall back into business as usual or not.
Illumination Guy,
ReplyDeleteI am sorry to say my opinion is most of Africa is a disaster that will not be solved, cannot be solved. Corruption is the norm. It is fueled by foreign corporations thirst for natural resources, oil, titanium, diamonds, gold, lumber, rare earths, fishing rights, trophie hunting legal and illegal, and foreign nations who will buy influence with foreign aid and sell weapons. It is made worse by a patchwork of political and religious schemers who will impose everything from Voodo Marxism to Voodo Fundamental Christianity and Muslim. The manufacturing base of Africa is little more than baskets and small boats. The education system is for a few at least as good as our (USA) 15th or 20th ranking to total ignorance of many. Drought and increased heat is driving a growing desertification clearing large areas of any agricultural or wildlife possibility. The only growth industry is slavery, hunger and wars. I do not see any hope. I think Africa the birth place of Lucy and our other human grandmothers will see the herds of thristy wildebeast replaced by herds of ragged hominids to feed the buzzards, they will not starve. I don't think any nation will intervene to stop it, I am not sure any can, the area is immense and ranges from chocking and rugged to bleak. Bill Gates billions to stop disease in Africa will be forgotten. The only thing that works there is is corrupt unregulated capitalism, even if Africa descends into hell, the ports will still find a way to ship titainum, gold, and food from starving shores to rich ones. As Lucy surly spent every new day searching for food and avoiding enemy and peril with no apparent outside help, so will her grandchildren. If there was a god.......
Skinny:
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. Shoot bastard businessmen! I don't have enough ammo for that. Maybe if we just do the ones that are super duper bastards, that could save us half the bullets.
If there was a God ... he must hate Africa/Africans?
ReplyDeleteProfessor Suri is of Indian (his paternal grandparents had to relocate in 1947 when Pakistan was created), Russian-Jewish and I can't remember exactly but some western European descent. He was born in New York, grew up a Yankees fan, got his B.A. at Stanford, his M.A. at Ohio University and his Ph.D. at Yale.
The next question, yesterday, was about Pakistan and why, if they are supposed to be allies, do they work with the Taliban. His answer gave me the impression that he keeps up on Pakistani politics on a daily basis. Perhaps he does.
This his own Bio Sketch:
I define "international history" broadly. My research examines the interactions between states, peoples, and cultures -- especially in the twentieth century. I am interested in the decisions of leaders and institutions, as well as the influence of ideas and social movements. Through multiarchival research I hope to "globalize" our understanding of relations among societies and America's often contested place in the world. My teaching applies this international approach to the history of American foreign relations since the eighteenth century (History 433 and 434), the global upheavals of the 1960s (History 600), great power relations since 1815 (History 901), the global history of the Cold War (History 753), and the history of imperialism (History 703).